Was just about to say the same thing, unless my parents had a massive stash of cash somewhere. Perhaps the author was thinking of Liverpool College before it turned into an academy?
Ditto- there is an unassociated Blue Coat school in Birmingham that is fee paying at the level quoted, and which often comes up above ‘ours’ in Google searches. Brilliant article otherwise!
Great article..lots of big words.. teacher once said to me don't be ashamed of your accent...it's what you say with that accent thats marks you out. Problem now is that the lad, lad, lad, demogragh is seen as the sterotype and seem to get all the publicity and the more literal of us are not seen enough. Just my take on this.
Really enjoyed this article. My son was born in Hampshire where my husband and I (both from Liverpool) lived for a while. He’s now in his early 40s but used to frequently ask me if he was really scouse because he was born elsewhere, even though we moved back to Waterloo when he was a year old. He now lives near Penny Lane - has the accent, the pride and the Liverpool season ticket!
My eldest daughter trained at Alder Hey and after a year working night shifts her scouse accent could cut glass, but then she moved to Ormskirk hospital and now her accent has lost that scouse edge.
My youngest daughter moved to London for work and after five years her accent had changed to south London, although to them she was still scouse in the way she pronounced words from her childhood.
I'm a cariocas and still proud of my birth city. Liverpool is such an international melting pot with the port and universities that trying to define a person by their origin seems old fashioned and restricitive.
Those who have watched the verbal exchange between the journalists Carole Malone and Liam Thorpe of the Liverpool Echo on Sky News press review (28th April) over the overwhelming supportive view of Liverpudlians for railway strikers, showed us very clearly no matter how hard some of us tried to explain to others our own definition of scousers, regardless of the 'tribal' differences, those from outside the boundary of Merseyside will never understand the characteristic ingredients that went into the making of scousers and what really made them tick. Those people tend to broad-brush every one with the slightest Liverpool accent into that semi-derogatory pigeonhole they created within their own minds and some of them have even gone as far as accusing scousers for having the penchant to wallow in their 'victim status'. This why any outsider's view on the definition of scousers can be seen as a divisive instrument for undermining the bond between all scousers.
Great article, eveen the slight factual errors - us Scousers are also PROUD of our mistakes!
This article came 24 hours after I agreed terms with my [LOCAL!!] Publisher about my next Novel, due out Before Christmas, title: "Home Rules" - in which Liverpool/Merseyside declares itself an Independent Self-Governing Republic ...
Many moons ago, my French teacher told us that Scousers are excellent language students because "we're all natural Parrots"
As a self-exiled Scouser (I married a Wirral girl, and love clouded my judgement), I remember issuing various snide comments when Wirral went from L postcodes to CH. I don’t regret them - it’s all a bit of fun, isn’t it?
Great article and boss illustrations too - the bin-kicker especially.
The word Scouse is also used as a verb, and I first heard it at the back of the 10 bus about 20 years ago. Some north face wearers were discussing how an associate had obtained carnal knowledge of a young lady and then split up with her. ‘SCOUSE’ was the reply.
I think this article will be a useful style guide for Liverpool Echo sub-editors when determining whether or not "Scouse" should be included in headlines.
Also handy for their investigative journalists, busting "Scouse" celebs for "not actually being from Liverpool".
How about a true Scouser being redefined as being born within hearing range of the bells or St Nicks? Not only would this be wonderfully plageristuc, but also incredibly exclusive. What better way to get city borough purists to embrace the wider Liverpolitan population than to put them in the same boat.
I enjoyed Josh's read and its clever composition but slippery definitions of scouseness like class demand more of an historical perspective with fewer monologues on identity politics. The latter is overindulged, diversionary and unsurprisingly loved by Tory culture war warriors. Ours is a Port City where we've acquired and take pride in a strong collective identity, (‘we’ being scouse not royal plural). It’s been shaped and patterned by struggles and conflicts (not just against bosses and governments but “internally” over religious sectarianism, race, ethnicity and gender), and fused into social traits that appear to the outsider as confident, brash, irreverent, and above all non deferential! Is that just my waffly generalisation or is it a Glittering Generalisation, (A GG!)? Does it really expand beyond the fact that “Riverside constituency” is the most republican in England? A moot point for Alan Bennet and those who question “Liverpool exceptionalism” but much more worthy of discussion than the colour of my Allerton bin.
And now a ritual genuflection to the Patron Saint of Big Scouse Causes. IF you have n’t purchased and read DIAMONDS IN THE MUD be reminded that it’s sales proceeds have been given away by the author to keep the iconic home of the locked out Liverpool Dockers, the CASA in Hope Street, alive and thriving. It’s a collective home with collective memories where the pulse and vibes of Big Liverpool, the former New York of Europe, can be felt pumping away. Viva the Casa
DIAMONDS IN THE MUD. Reidey the award winning journalist and celebrated Patron Saint of Big Scouse causes, has produced what Jimmy McGovern one of Liverpool's best ever playwrights describes as "a powerful, vital and visionary book". Power and vitality resonate from the first page of the prologue where we are introduced to the young journo in his early twenties listening to advice given by a former Japanese POW. Like so many other uncelebrated working class heroes, he had returned home from the Second World War emaciated, broken, without any recognition or reward from a country rich in rhetoric and hyperbole about a land fit for heroes! The indisputable, reality then and now is that "heroes come cheap in this country, son, never forget it”!
Brian's from a breed of journalists of powerful principles and genuine pashion, never tolerating injustices, so there was no worry he'd suffer historical amnesia over the sage POW's advice, and also of family warnings that as a graduate of posh Warwick University he would ever be allowed to assume airs and graces!
The result, after over 40 years of fine tuning his craft as a wordsmith is an inspiring, irreverent broadside against a zeitgeist of dissimulation and Government contrived culture wars and what I see as a riveting appeal for a resuscitated "history from below", a People's History. There's little evidence of "red sails over university campuses" today "but in my day" there was. It was fresh, inspirational, a bottom up brand of history that "rescued" and celebrated "real heroes". It was not whether such "extraordinary ordinary men and women" changed the world or not, but "in an age when being worshipped for doing nothing comes easy", Reidey reminds us, (and hopefully my former history chums), why Working Class diamonds "are...humanity's real heroes." Right on Saint.
Fact check: Liverpool Blue Coat is not a fee paying school!
Was just about to say the same thing, unless my parents had a massive stash of cash somewhere. Perhaps the author was thinking of Liverpool College before it turned into an academy?
Beat me to it! My son went to Bluecoat also, definitely not fee paying!
Ditto- there is an unassociated Blue Coat school in Birmingham that is fee paying at the level quoted, and which often comes up above ‘ours’ in Google searches. Brilliant article otherwise!
Any article working in Möbius, ouroborous and continuum in quick succession is a winner in my eyes!
Exaggerated Scouse Disorder is well documented here, lad, nice one, lad. In a bit. Lad
Great article..lots of big words.. teacher once said to me don't be ashamed of your accent...it's what you say with that accent thats marks you out. Problem now is that the lad, lad, lad, demogragh is seen as the sterotype and seem to get all the publicity and the more literal of us are not seen enough. Just my take on this.
Really enjoyed this article. My son was born in Hampshire where my husband and I (both from Liverpool) lived for a while. He’s now in his early 40s but used to frequently ask me if he was really scouse because he was born elsewhere, even though we moved back to Waterloo when he was a year old. He now lives near Penny Lane - has the accent, the pride and the Liverpool season ticket!
Further fact check.
I’m in Knowsley but on the border of Knowsley and Liverpool. I’ve never seen a brown bin in this area. Knowsley bins are maroon.
There’s a wonderful image on Google that labels the areas of Merseyside very succinctly.
My eldest daughter trained at Alder Hey and after a year working night shifts her scouse accent could cut glass, but then she moved to Ormskirk hospital and now her accent has lost that scouse edge.
My youngest daughter moved to London for work and after five years her accent had changed to south London, although to them she was still scouse in the way she pronounced words from her childhood.
I'm a cariocas and still proud of my birth city. Liverpool is such an international melting pot with the port and universities that trying to define a person by their origin seems old fashioned and restricitive.
Those who have watched the verbal exchange between the journalists Carole Malone and Liam Thorpe of the Liverpool Echo on Sky News press review (28th April) over the overwhelming supportive view of Liverpudlians for railway strikers, showed us very clearly no matter how hard some of us tried to explain to others our own definition of scousers, regardless of the 'tribal' differences, those from outside the boundary of Merseyside will never understand the characteristic ingredients that went into the making of scousers and what really made them tick. Those people tend to broad-brush every one with the slightest Liverpool accent into that semi-derogatory pigeonhole they created within their own minds and some of them have even gone as far as accusing scousers for having the penchant to wallow in their 'victim status'. This why any outsider's view on the definition of scousers can be seen as a divisive instrument for undermining the bond between all scousers.
Love that you get Jacques Derrida into an article on Scouseness!
Great article, eveen the slight factual errors - us Scousers are also PROUD of our mistakes!
This article came 24 hours after I agreed terms with my [LOCAL!!] Publisher about my next Novel, due out Before Christmas, title: "Home Rules" - in which Liverpool/Merseyside declares itself an Independent Self-Governing Republic ...
Many moons ago, my French teacher told us that Scousers are excellent language students because "we're all natural Parrots"
As a self-exiled Scouser (I married a Wirral girl, and love clouded my judgement), I remember issuing various snide comments when Wirral went from L postcodes to CH. I don’t regret them - it’s all a bit of fun, isn’t it?
Great article and boss illustrations too - the bin-kicker especially.
Thanks.
Mick Kelly
The word Scouse is also used as a verb, and I first heard it at the back of the 10 bus about 20 years ago. Some north face wearers were discussing how an associate had obtained carnal knowledge of a young lady and then split up with her. ‘SCOUSE’ was the reply.
I think this article will be a useful style guide for Liverpool Echo sub-editors when determining whether or not "Scouse" should be included in headlines.
Also handy for their investigative journalists, busting "Scouse" celebs for "not actually being from Liverpool".
How about a true Scouser being redefined as being born within hearing range of the bells or St Nicks? Not only would this be wonderfully plageristuc, but also incredibly exclusive. What better way to get city borough purists to embrace the wider Liverpolitan population than to put them in the same boat.
within hearing range of St.Nicks? That would keep the numbers of scousers down to single figures as I doubt you can hear the bells from the Womens.
This is the most amazing thing I have read on Scouseness…ever⚔️
On the definition, went with a haiku:
Dialect so unique,
Liverpudlian tongue they speak,
Scouse, culture's mystique.
I enjoyed Josh's read and its clever composition but slippery definitions of scouseness like class demand more of an historical perspective with fewer monologues on identity politics. The latter is overindulged, diversionary and unsurprisingly loved by Tory culture war warriors. Ours is a Port City where we've acquired and take pride in a strong collective identity, (‘we’ being scouse not royal plural). It’s been shaped and patterned by struggles and conflicts (not just against bosses and governments but “internally” over religious sectarianism, race, ethnicity and gender), and fused into social traits that appear to the outsider as confident, brash, irreverent, and above all non deferential! Is that just my waffly generalisation or is it a Glittering Generalisation, (A GG!)? Does it really expand beyond the fact that “Riverside constituency” is the most republican in England? A moot point for Alan Bennet and those who question “Liverpool exceptionalism” but much more worthy of discussion than the colour of my Allerton bin.
And now a ritual genuflection to the Patron Saint of Big Scouse Causes. IF you have n’t purchased and read DIAMONDS IN THE MUD be reminded that it’s sales proceeds have been given away by the author to keep the iconic home of the locked out Liverpool Dockers, the CASA in Hope Street, alive and thriving. It’s a collective home with collective memories where the pulse and vibes of Big Liverpool, the former New York of Europe, can be felt pumping away. Viva the Casa
DIAMONDS IN THE MUD. Reidey the award winning journalist and celebrated Patron Saint of Big Scouse causes, has produced what Jimmy McGovern one of Liverpool's best ever playwrights describes as "a powerful, vital and visionary book". Power and vitality resonate from the first page of the prologue where we are introduced to the young journo in his early twenties listening to advice given by a former Japanese POW. Like so many other uncelebrated working class heroes, he had returned home from the Second World War emaciated, broken, without any recognition or reward from a country rich in rhetoric and hyperbole about a land fit for heroes! The indisputable, reality then and now is that "heroes come cheap in this country, son, never forget it”!
Brian's from a breed of journalists of powerful principles and genuine pashion, never tolerating injustices, so there was no worry he'd suffer historical amnesia over the sage POW's advice, and also of family warnings that as a graduate of posh Warwick University he would ever be allowed to assume airs and graces!
The result, after over 40 years of fine tuning his craft as a wordsmith is an inspiring, irreverent broadside against a zeitgeist of dissimulation and Government contrived culture wars and what I see as a riveting appeal for a resuscitated "history from below", a People's History. There's little evidence of "red sails over university campuses" today "but in my day" there was. It was fresh, inspirational, a bottom up brand of history that "rescued" and celebrated "real heroes". It was not whether such "extraordinary ordinary men and women" changed the world or not, but "in an age when being worshipped for doing nothing comes easy", Reidey reminds us, (and hopefully my former history chums), why Working Class diamonds "are...humanity's real heroes." Right on Saint.