Always a fan of the Post, but I do have a *massive* niggle, and while it's not just Lawrence, I've noticed it elsewhere on here, too (looking at you, Abi).
Ask Lawrence to open his council tax bill and describe what's at the top of it. It says: "Wirral Council". Other correspondence may refer to "Metropolitan Borough of Wirral". But not and never "The Wirral Council".
Look at map of this place. It's written in black ink marking "Wirral", not "the Wirral". Look at motorway signs. Nowhere, but nowhere, is "the" in the mix.
I know and appreciate that it's a colloquial shorthand for "the Wirral peninsula" in much the same way Wirralians often refer to visiting family, friends etc in Liverpool as "going into town". But that doesn't mean we lazily then call Liverpool "the town."
I get it - from the BBC to Sky News to occasionally even in the Echo, too, the rogue "the" has slipped into discourse like an otter into water, but that doesn't make it right. No one lives in The Manchester, or The Sheffield, or The Liverpool (unless they actually live in the pub in James Street), or The Glasgow, or The Birmingham. Same for Wirral. Please include it in your style guide and make this ageing pedant stop waving his fists in the air.
We've discussed this quite a bit here at The Post. I've lived on the Wirral all my life and I've always called it that. Everyone I know calls it the Wirral. Just so you know a bit behind our thinking: Ten years ago, the Echo did a poll on this, and 91% of respondants confirmed they would use the definite article, too. I'm amazed it wasn't higher than that. So that's what we've decided to go with for our style, but we appreciate the feedback
I was under the impression the Wirral is the peninsular. Defined as starting two arrow flights out of a longbow from Chester. Wirral is the local authority. Thus many folk live on the Wirral but of these, not all are in Wirral. Hopefully that's clear enough.......
Over here in South Liverpool it sounds like there's a big definite article spat brewing amongst "identity crisis" guys on the Wirral or is it indefinitely on Wirral as Justin argues? One sound thing about belonging to the Liverpool subgenus of "Scouse exceptionalism" (Lawrence Thompson's phrase) is that I feel the vibes bros. Scousers empathise with your sense of anomie and feeling dominated by the Big Bro across the river, (or is just River Mersey Justin?). Always remember guys that when on holiday we don't mind you porky pie'in' about coming from the land of the Beatles. You can and this I envy tell the truth about Half Man Half Biscuit being brilliant.
All excellent but, alas, mostly completely wrong. Just because you like or prefer something, in this case a "the", doesn't make it correct. Otherwise we'd all be backing "the" Taliban.
And Ronald, no, I have never said I'm from Liverpool, always Wirral. And yes, I've had to explain it to glassy-eyed listeners. But the best ever response I got was from a Glaswegian, who, in a Russ Abbot See You Jimmy hat and wig (ask someone older than 40, or Google, or indeed don't, because it was awful TV) was handing out nightclub flyers late at night in Majorca in the 80s.
"Wirral?" he said. "Is that the estate with the gardens?"
People on the Wirral mostly refer to it as the Wirral. It can't reasonably be said to be wrong when most people say it (these days, would anyone who knows anything about language take a prescriptive, rather than descriptive, approach?).
The point about it being a peninsula shouldn't be dismissed either. As peninsulas take the definite article when named in full, it's not hard to see how that might result in it carrying or developing (in the tumourous sense) a definite article in its shorter form. The fact that completely different geographical entities (cities) don't take the definite article is an irrelevance. As too is whether and when other noun categories take definite articles. In "I live on the Wirral", "Wirral" is the head noun which governs article usage; in Wirral Council, "Wirral" is not the head and so does not govern article usage.
People are, of course, entitled to their own style choices – a largely different matter to what is or isn't correct. If you prefer to go with "Wirral", then go also with God.
In case you're wondering why I did not renew my subscription, here is further evidence. This is the sort of nonsense I expect from the tabloids. amd I don't pay to support them either.
You know the Rooney v Varney lawsuit will be on media and libel law curriculums for years to come? While you might look down your nose at the main players, it's a landmark case that says a lot about our current times. My only criticism of it being included here might be that it's not local news, but national.
This story has been covered by the Times and the Guardian this week, but looks like the FT haven't got there yet so at least Nick will have something to read over his cornflakes. Personally I will never tire of hearing about the delightful Mrs R.
Always a fan of the Post, but I do have a *massive* niggle, and while it's not just Lawrence, I've noticed it elsewhere on here, too (looking at you, Abi).
Ask Lawrence to open his council tax bill and describe what's at the top of it. It says: "Wirral Council". Other correspondence may refer to "Metropolitan Borough of Wirral". But not and never "The Wirral Council".
Look at map of this place. It's written in black ink marking "Wirral", not "the Wirral". Look at motorway signs. Nowhere, but nowhere, is "the" in the mix.
I know and appreciate that it's a colloquial shorthand for "the Wirral peninsula" in much the same way Wirralians often refer to visiting family, friends etc in Liverpool as "going into town". But that doesn't mean we lazily then call Liverpool "the town."
I get it - from the BBC to Sky News to occasionally even in the Echo, too, the rogue "the" has slipped into discourse like an otter into water, but that doesn't make it right. No one lives in The Manchester, or The Sheffield, or The Liverpool (unless they actually live in the pub in James Street), or The Glasgow, or The Birmingham. Same for Wirral. Please include it in your style guide and make this ageing pedant stop waving his fists in the air.
Justin,
The New Brighton
Hi Justin,
We've discussed this quite a bit here at The Post. I've lived on the Wirral all my life and I've always called it that. Everyone I know calls it the Wirral. Just so you know a bit behind our thinking: Ten years ago, the Echo did a poll on this, and 91% of respondants confirmed they would use the definite article, too. I'm amazed it wasn't higher than that. So that's what we've decided to go with for our style, but we appreciate the feedback
Cheers!
Laurence (not Lawrence)
The Laurence :-)
I've always called Wirral, the Wirral
Me too!
I was under the impression the Wirral is the peninsular. Defined as starting two arrow flights out of a longbow from Chester. Wirral is the local authority. Thus many folk live on the Wirral but of these, not all are in Wirral. Hopefully that's clear enough.......
Thanks for this Justin! Will keep in mind
Over here in South Liverpool it sounds like there's a big definite article spat brewing amongst "identity crisis" guys on the Wirral or is it indefinitely on Wirral as Justin argues? One sound thing about belonging to the Liverpool subgenus of "Scouse exceptionalism" (Lawrence Thompson's phrase) is that I feel the vibes bros. Scousers empathise with your sense of anomie and feeling dominated by the Big Bro across the river, (or is just River Mersey Justin?). Always remember guys that when on holiday we don't mind you porky pie'in' about coming from the land of the Beatles. You can and this I envy tell the truth about Half Man Half Biscuit being brilliant.
Only just seen these replies!
All excellent but, alas, mostly completely wrong. Just because you like or prefer something, in this case a "the", doesn't make it correct. Otherwise we'd all be backing "the" Taliban.
And Ronald, no, I have never said I'm from Liverpool, always Wirral. And yes, I've had to explain it to glassy-eyed listeners. But the best ever response I got was from a Glaswegian, who, in a Russ Abbot See You Jimmy hat and wig (ask someone older than 40, or Google, or indeed don't, because it was awful TV) was handing out nightclub flyers late at night in Majorca in the 80s.
"Wirral?" he said. "Is that the estate with the gardens?"
People on the Wirral mostly refer to it as the Wirral. It can't reasonably be said to be wrong when most people say it (these days, would anyone who knows anything about language take a prescriptive, rather than descriptive, approach?).
The point about it being a peninsula shouldn't be dismissed either. As peninsulas take the definite article when named in full, it's not hard to see how that might result in it carrying or developing (in the tumourous sense) a definite article in its shorter form. The fact that completely different geographical entities (cities) don't take the definite article is an irrelevance. As too is whether and when other noun categories take definite articles. In "I live on the Wirral", "Wirral" is the head noun which governs article usage; in Wirral Council, "Wirral" is not the head and so does not govern article usage.
People are, of course, entitled to their own style choices – a largely different matter to what is or isn't correct. If you prefer to go with "Wirral", then go also with God.
80s band Squeeze? A lot of their best songs were released in the 70s.
That’ll be my love of Eastside Story coming through…best album in my opinion! Although you’re right, 1979 was their big year 🎸
Not sure a week’s fee is £800, would guess it’s £800 per annum.
In case you're wondering why I did not renew my subscription, here is further evidence. This is the sort of nonsense I expect from the tabloids. amd I don't pay to support them either.
we've had a few heavy Monday Briefings in a row lately, so we were trying to keep things light this time around, but message received and appreciated.
You know the Rooney v Varney lawsuit will be on media and libel law curriculums for years to come? While you might look down your nose at the main players, it's a landmark case that says a lot about our current times. My only criticism of it being included here might be that it's not local news, but national.
All good points!
This story has been covered by the Times and the Guardian this week, but looks like the FT haven't got there yet so at least Nick will have something to read over his cornflakes. Personally I will never tire of hearing about the delightful Mrs R.